Two pieces of bad news in the mail today

"Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing." (granfury) 01/20/2018 at 14:36 • Filed to: None

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Just when I thought everything was getting back on track, financially speaking, two thin little envelopes show up in the mail that seem to be reversing that trend:

1) A letter from a collection agency regarding an ER visit from back in 2016. This is the first I’ve seen regarding a debt from this hospital. I know that there was supposed to be a co-pay, and I gave them all of my financial information at the time of service (the stupid person taking that information refused to turn off or even adjust the light on her mobile workstation when I was in a darkened room being treated for a massive migraine). At no point did I ever receive a bill or statement of account, just this collection letter. It doesn’t surprise me that I may owe some money on this, but the amount seems to be triple what was expected. And this kind of financial uncertainty is one of those reasons I rarely go to the doctor, even though I know I should. Why does this have to be so difficult?

2) A statement from the city of St. Louis for back taxes from 2012. If you live or work in the city of St Louis there is an additional 1% income tax. I didn’t start with my then-employer until August 2012, and I didn’t leave California to relocate to STL until late September of that year. The money was taken out of my checks and reported on my taxes. I sent them all of this information years ago, but now I’m going to have to dig through boxes of crap (and old tax records on an old computer - I hope I remember the password!) to find it again and send it to them. Again.

3) While we’re at it, I still owe the damn state of Missouri. in 2014 Citibank forgave some debt that was 15+ years old, and that joyfully got reported to the state and feds as income. I’ve taken care of the feds, but now the state wants their cut. Hopefully my state tax refund will be the same amount so they can just confiscate that and be done with it.

I want to file my taxes, but my W2 hasn’t arrived (or more precisely, been made available on my employer’s website). Any day now. I guess I’ll spend the weekend digging through boxes of financial records and then searching for who to contact for a statement of account regarding that medical bill. I’m sure the debt collector won’t have it, and I question whether the hospital will be willing to provide it considering that they sold the debt. Any words of advice?

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 01/20/2018 at 15:25

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On that ER debt, you could send a dispute/verification letter to the collection agency asking for a verification of the debt and an itemized statement of how it was accursed. If they can provide that, then you know what to pay. If they can’t, or it is as much work as you think it may be to do so, they may go away and you can have the collection account disputed and removed from your credit files. If they ignore it, or they can’t verify it and pursue collection anyway, you’ve then got grounds for a FDCA complaint and/or lawsuit against them.

The FTC used to have a pretty good website with condensed info on how to do so, the relevant statues to cite and sample letters.

On old tax records, you can also get transcripts of prior tax returns from the IRS (when the govt. reopens...) via their website.

djmt1 > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 01/20/2018 at 15:30

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“And this kind of financial uncertainty is one of those reasons I rarely go to the doctor, even though I know I should. Why does this have to be so difficult?”

See now I feel like a cunt for moaning that I had to go to my second closest hospital (it’s two rather than one bus to get there for my closest) for a free MRI scan for my migraine. That said Theresa if your reading. Stop underfunding the NHS!

As for advice. Check your correspondences to see if they sent you any bills. If not enquire as to when they should of been sent and as to whether there were any follow ups.

DipodomysDeserti > djmt1 01/20/2018 at 15:41

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I just got a bill for $1,400 from the ER doc that saw my daughter for two minutes to tell me she didn’t have appendicitis, but just needed to take a poop. That’s on top of the $400 hospital charge and the X Ray charges. My insurance covered the X Rays, but none of the ER charges. Didn’t even get a room, just sat in the hallway on a cot. So, $1,800 for an hour visit to the ER...God Bless America. But hey, at least I can buy guns, hurr durrr.

Khalbali > DipodomysDeserti 01/20/2018 at 15:58

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You got off easy, we got a bill for a 2 hour visit with a couple routine tests and an IV and it was almost $5000, insurance wouldn’t cover a dime. That was almost a year ago and haven’t even been able to start trying to pay it yet. This country is just so fucked from top to bottom I can’t see any of it ever being fixed, hopefully I get the chance to leave someday.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > DipodomysDeserti 01/20/2018 at 16:02

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Egg-fucking-zactly.

My parents were recently talking about relocating to New Zealand. I’m thinking that I might just join them...

FastIndy > Khalbali 01/20/2018 at 16:23

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Your car becomes ill, so you take it to see a highly trained (years of education in an extremely competitive school, further years of on-the-job training) team of people who instantly become completely responsible for your car’s health. You then do not ask anything about the costs for the services that are performed.

If it’s their job to make sure that your car is healthy no matter the cost, then perhaps it is your job to ensure that the cost is worth the services rendered.

DipodomysDeserti > Khalbali 01/20/2018 at 16:29

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Yeesh. There’s no way I’m paying $1,400. You can call them and negotiate down a lower price.

DipodomysDeserti > FastIndy 01/20/2018 at 16:32

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That’s possible the worst analogy I’ve ever heard. Comparing healthcare, particularly healthcare for a dependent minor, to bringing a car into a mechanic is beyond absurd.

Khalbali > FastIndy 01/20/2018 at 17:20

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Yeah except it’s a lot easier to put off car repairs then when your wife is vomiting blood. And even when you do ask, which we have, they just give you some bs about how it depends on your insurance or something. And even when you make sure to go to an in-network hospital (which we did) you can still be treated by an out-of-network doctor (which she was apparently). So no, it’s not the same at all, the system is irreparably broken. There is no practical way to get an estimate of all the costs involved ahead of time, even if you have the luxury of time to shop around, which you don’t generally when you need an ER. Emergency rooms in particular, and hospitals in general, exist to profit handsomely off of people’s misfortune.

Khalbali > DipodomysDeserti 01/20/2018 at 17:20

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Thank you.

Khalbali > DipodomysDeserti 01/20/2018 at 17:23

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Yeah I know, but my wife wasn’t able to work for a while after that and we’re still super behind on more pressing bills that I haven’t even had a chance to think about that one. We could have easily ended up on the street if not for family, it’s amazing how easily you can wind up screwed for years by something like this. We were trying to save up for a house and now we live in my parents basement and our credit is trashed.

DipodomysDeserti > Khalbali 01/20/2018 at 17:53

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I’m glad you were able to get yourself in a situation where you can start to recover. Good luck.

GLiddy > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 01/20/2018 at 22:42

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The collection agency bought the right to collect the debt for pennies on the dollar. You should be able to settle for much less. First of all, they have to provide you with the original documents showing that you owe it. (Especially if you never received it.) If they can’t (and many don’t have it) then it is not collectable. If they can provide you with copies of the original bills, then tell them that you don’t have the money, and that all communications from then on should be in writing. If you do have a little cash to throw at them, tell them how much you are willing to send to “settle as payment in full”. If they accept that, tell them to send it to you in writing, and then send them a cashiers check or money order. Send it certified, return receipt. Keep copies of everything forever.

Do not give them a debit or credit card number or access to your bank account or a personal check, or they will pull the whole amount from your card/account.

Good luck.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > GLiddy 01/21/2018 at 00:12

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Great advice in there. Thank you.

FastIndy > DipodomysDeserti 01/23/2018 at 17:47

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I’ve got two dependent minors that I’ve spent thousands on healthcare for. I’ve seen $30,000 bills. I’m not arguing that the system isn’t broken. I’m arguing that you can’t simultaneously expect the best healthcare in the world and not take some kind of personal responsibility for trying to reduce the costs it might incur. This is a cumulative problem and not one that YOU can fix on your own (unfortunately) but it is one that WE as a country can fix by a change in mindset.

Whether or not the analogy is absurd is something of a philosophical debate relating to how much “specialness” simply being human imbues us with, and the willingness to ignore the cost placed on the rest of society by practicing arbitrarily complex medicine on any individual.

DipodomysDeserti > FastIndy 01/23/2018 at 23:15

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Only an psychopath would think about pricing when a loved one is experiencing a medical emergency. Your analogy was moronic for several reasons, none of which were philosophical in nature. And if you think medicine is arbitrarily complex, you might want to ask your medical school for a refund.

FastIndy > DipodomysDeserti 01/26/2018 at 15:56

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If you think the medicine that we practice here is simple, by all means, attend a medical school. Examine the measures taken at every level in the industry from manufacturing to application that are preventing that IV from causing a potentially lethal infection, then look at what happens in countries that don’t follow the same practices. I’m not saying that the medicine that we practice right now is arbitrarily complex, but isn’t it certainly moving in that direction in the US? I’m saying we should be taking measures to drastically lower the costs of more basic healthcare services, while being more upfront about the costs of further services before they are offered.

I’d argue that saying “heal my loved one at any cost” then being surprised by the cost is quite moronic. Yet that’s exactly what most of us do. We are surprised at the fact that we’ve been taken advantage of when we got so lax as a society that we let it happen in the first place.

In this following I’m quite certain that my opinion is well outside the norms. But, if we want the situation to improve, should we wait for the healthcare industry to do it or should we start with an evaluation on the value of our own lives, and the strategies that we go into these situations with in the first place? Who would you say has a more vested interest in what we pay? For that matter, where do we draw the limit for what we pay to fix a medical condition or to prevent death?